Curse

Captain Nemo · Apr 08, 2006, 03:11 AM // 03:11

Hello everyone,

I have been a visitor to this place for quite some time, but never felt like posting, and therefore, until now I opened a posting account. Am a player fom Mexico, and even when I love this game, I have felt some disagreement at the way some things are managed. Anyway, I recently wrote something to ArenaNet, and I wanted to share it to you, to see a few commentaries pop up, so bear with it, please

Here it is, unedited

Hi,

Am writing to you after doing a somewhat extensive search on your site and other sites related to the Guild Wars Game. I have sadly observed that like many other game companies, you have diminished the importance of the Latin American Market, and the proofs are everywhere to be seen, from the very marked difference in the updates in the spanish webpage, to the obvious fact that it is almost completely, if not entirely at all, directed to Spain based players.

Forget for a second the alien feelings that Latinamericans have for the Spaniards, starting from the fact that we no longer use the traditional 19th century old fashioned version of spanish (Imagine yourself speaking english still using "thee", "ye" and "olde" and you will understand what am saying). There are also very strong cultural differences, which combined with a generalized discrimination for everything that comes from outside of Spain, makes it very difficult to feel any compenetration at all, not only as a player but as a customer too.

If you add to this the fact that when consulting you web pages there are nowhere to be found any job opportunities to be taken in Latinamerica, or the fact that we can't simply preorder the sequel to you game outside the boundaries of the United States or Canada -which let me tell you, represents a very expensive struggle against parcel services, online stores and the such - It all comes to strike me that the market from Mexico to below is obviously underrated.

Piracy is not a concern to you: a unique key code is needed, hence a pirated copy of your game is of no use. And while traditionally videogame companies have stereotypically looked to Spain when addressing spanish versions of their products, I can assertain without risk that the Latin American market has overgrown the number of spaniard players, by a far number.

Please, start looking down the continent, and DO make a research: you will find out that any necessary changes to your existing or future products/webpages may not be as time consuming and expensive as you might think, and in the long run, you will also find out that the opportunity for profit will be quite more appealing.

Sincerely,

Daniel Ortega,

A devoted gamer, faithful player of GuildWars and a proud citizen of Mexico.

Captain Nemo · Apr 08, 2006, 03:19 PM // 15:19

I will not start a racist discussion here, so to stay in topic, just leave it at the fact that according to the UN and many other organizations, the fastest and one of the strongest markets for internet is indeed Latin America.

The tendency is to consider Latin America as a group of poor or developing countries, which is in part true. the bottom line is that there are very active and booming economies, couped with some very bad managements from their governments. I know because I live in one of them.

Nevertheless, the market is still attractive and highly profitable, by the sheer numbers alone: 25 millions in Mexico only (a rough but approximate number). If you dont believe me, ask Google, Verizon, Microsoft, etc. High speed connections are not a problem anymore, they are popping out like gremlins everywhere.

So with that update to my post, I leave it again be for discussion

Str0b0 · Apr 08, 2006, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Honestly all I hear is yet another whine from another person who feels that because of some difference they have from someone else that they are being shafted. Before I get jumped on for being a racist let me point out that this is no different from the PvE whining or the anti-55 monk whining or any number of whining posts on this site. It all goes something like this. “Oh Anet ignores/hates/is unfair to/doesn't like/persecutes we poor <insert whatever particular demographic is pissing and moaning here>." Anet has to do its marketing in a certain order of profitability and it has to cater to its base income. So what if the Spanish section of the site is in European Spanish? It's just a dialect. I'm from the South Eastern US. I don't complain because ANet doesn't write in southern colloquialisms." Hey y'all the new updates are here!" While I know that dialects denote culture you can't get a burr up your butt just because there was some bad blood hundreds of years ago between Spain and the Latin American Countries. Now as far as marketing and demographics as a function of profitability well consider the buying power of the Euro as opposed to say the Peso. I'd cater to the money myself. Granted the Latin American countries are becoming a respectable economic force but their time is still a while off and until then you might as well get used to being in the back seat when it comes to big business. I just don't get this persecution complex people get just because their specific needs aren't met by a company that has to cater to a more or less global market. While we are at it, ANet I want to see some Swahili pages on there too because you're neglecting those people. I'm sure some of them have an internet connection. I can understand some of the points made in the letter and by later posters but I honestly think this is a just a matter of being nit picky and not understanding that the main goal of a business is to be profitable and with the way the global currency market is right now it's just good business to cater to Europe.

HawkofStorms · Apr 08, 2006, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Australia was ignored just like Latin America. Of course, they are planning on adding an Australia/Oceanic region soon. Maybe if you get more support and more people in your part of the world played, that could happen to you too.

Captain Nemo · Apr 08, 2006, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Ok, as I said, I wont start a discussion here on a matter of racism or ancestral quarries, just a clarification, Strobo.

Tipycally the videogames companies looked forward to Spain as the only source of income for their products because yes, you are right, they were the only spanish speaking market that had enough money to constantly buy their products, hence a boom over the later 80s and early 90s of the translation sector, as well as the software development companies too in that country. They had a head start, supported by a economy that had been stable for over almost 20 years. Pyro Studios, the creators of the Commandos series of titles, are a living proof of it.

However little by little over the 90s Latin American economies became much more solid, as dictators fell, democracy settled in, and whatnot. Bottom line, again, is that this has been a profitable and safe market for software companies for quite a while now, even if you consider piracy as a setback - which, as I said, should not pose a problem to a game like Guild Wars.

Indeed, the changing in certain aspects may well mean an investment which ArenaNet and NCSoft may not be willing to absorb in its totality, like the sudden addition of the region in aspects like job hiring and contests.

However, in the most pure and rough capitalist thinking, I believe its a failure not to place preselling orders for our market. The argument is simple yet clear: they wouldn't have to invest a cent, intermediaries are the one that move the product, and they DO exist: CompUSA has presence and partners in Mexico and pretty sure in the rest of Latin America, and there are big enough intermediaries to assure the selling of the product. However, and that is a lesson they teach you at College, the product won't sell itself if you don't promote it.

I grant you, I should have clarified the first time a point I refer to about regional differences. Its a theme which even divides Latin America in itself, when it comes to translations. Of all the mail I wrote, that may very well be the one without the less reason to be, the discussion can be endless, and therefore, pointless. My apologies on that.

Given that, again, I await all answers, and yes, my Aussie friend, support and feedback is exactly what am looking for here, as that was the answer of NCSoft: put it on the boards. So here it is.

Str0b0 · Apr 08, 2006, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Stability does not translate into profitability. The economies of the various countries in that region of the world may be more stable but their currency is a money pit. That's pretty much universal throughout Latin-America when you compare those currencies to the buying power of the Yen, the Dollar and the Euro. In order to turn a profit they would have to adjust for the horrendous exchange rates which would likely drive the price up to a ridiculous degree and end up making them less profit by exclusivity of the product through no fault of their own.

As for starting a discussion on racism or ancestral grievances I didn't bring the subject up. I'm just addressing your points.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Nemo

Forget for a second the alien feelings that Latinamericans have for the Spaniards, starting from the fact that we no longer use the traditional 19th century old fashioned version of spanish (Imagine yourself speaking english still using "thee", "ye" and "olde" and you will understand what am saying). There are also very strong cultural differences, which combined with a generalized discrimination for everything that comes from outside of Spain, makes it very difficult to feel any compenetration at all, not only as a player but as a customer too.

I'm not saying they should necessarily exclude the Latin-American market however I can certainly see the reason for a limited release and limited marketing in that area. As for Pyro Studios they are the exception not the rule. Demographically speaking Latin-America does not support the technology education to enter that segment of the market yet, at least not in a big way. I have yet to hear of any Six Sigma programing facilities in Latin-America. Now there is a reason for this, when most companies are dieing to get a Latin-American facility in play for the low cost of operating, and that reason is the lack of local assets. The advent of the internet has made technology education more accessible but nothing substitutes for an experienced individual teaching an actual classroom and let's face it there is a significant technology gap still in existence between Latin-America and other developing countries and other more tech heavy nations. I imagine that they could put a server cluster and facilities in Latin-America and they could train local people to maintain these facilities and the hardware but that costs money too, much more money than being able to pull the latest crop of bright eyed bushy tailed college grads with technology degrees and current certifications. Training also entails relocating people there to do the training. That costs money.

I don't disagree with your talking points here. Latin-America has shown great economic growth and technological growth as a whole but not enough to lure companies into placing local technology facilities there in a big way and not enough to make them a significant economic factor in the technology market. I hate to say it but I think the only tech based business you see locating to Latin-America in a big way are the manufacturers and even then they will be there for low operating costs and unskilled labor. The facilities simply aren't there. The economy isn't ready for their to be a huge boom in technology development. A lot of factors have to be brought up to speed before you'll see that happen. I do predict that once these issues are resolved that you will see a huge outsourcing boom in Latin-America just like we have seen in India and China. From there you will get more and more technology based companies. It will be hardware first then software. In the end I think you want too much too quickly. Great progress has been made, but there is more to do before Latin-America presents a viable global consumer economy for technology. For example to keep the price of the game the same and net the same take in US dollars they would have to charge 555.72 pesos for it at current exchange rates. Considering that the average monthly income is about 5,510 pesos, according to gpn.org, that's an investment of over ten percent of the monthly income on a game. Of course that data is only good for Mexico but I imagine you will find analogs of the same situation throughout Latin-America. The problem is that the economic policies of Latin-america, and Mexico in particular, do not emphasize long term planning. Mexico raked in 1.5 billion in oil profits last year. 90% of it went to government spending instead of reinvestment. Instead of writing Anet you should be writing your government to encourage long term investment instead of short term programs. You should write your governments to encourage more responsible fiscal policy in general.

tuperwho · Apr 08, 2006, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Looks like a very well thought out and respectful request that deserves an honest response from Anet. Well done.

I would just like to point out that for factions, I believe you can do the preorder online, and they e-mail you the codes. May not get it as far ahead of time, but you can still get it by/at release -- unless I'm mistaken.

Captain Nemo · Apr 08, 2006, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Its nice to see an informed man, Strobo, and yes, you are right, the charging rate for the game is 550 pesos. You are right too in the fact that the average house income is 5,000 pesos. You are forgetting 2 things here: credit cards, and market segments. Banks are the first one to check if these are in order and profitable, and the presence of the major banks of the world for more than 8 years now in these countries are a proof that the market is indeed not only stable, but safe for investment, as I said before.

All in all, it is "only" the 25% of the total population of Mexico the one that can afford to buy the game and not mess up the family economy. However, think that it also means a rough number of 25 millions, as I said before, and they belong to the segments of A+, A, B+ and B. Now, bring those numbers down to the age segment. Lets say that 50% of those are in the age to be interested in it. Thats still 12.5 mill. Bring it down again to the "gaming" segment, and even to the "caring for" segment. Lets cut it down to a petty 2 million (this time am doing approximate guesses on the gaming sector, but am pretty sure am right on the age one). That alone is twice the milestone that ArenaNet got after 4 months of Guild Wars operations. Lets place the expectatives even lower: say "only" 100 thousand people are interested in acquiring Guild Wars and its sequel. Thats a platinum disc in the music industry!

And for the point made about hardware and software companies in the area, you will find that since the late 90s your predictions have been fullfilling, at a fast pace: Mexico manufactures a good deal of Hardware, and software is startling to settle in, and Argentina, Chile and Brazil are on the same level or above on the industry sector. Chile and Brazil are known now for quite a while for their designers and programmers, and yes, we in Mexico too are becoming reputed for offshore contracts. I know all this because I had to to a research for one of these companies last semester: they where hired for the last 10 years by a number of big companies like IBM, CitiBank, HSBC, etc. and they weren't the exception: they competed head to head with many other Mexico based companies.

Given this, I consider that the market IS profitable, and attractive. It only needs to be taken into account.

P.D: Oh, And TuperWho: only Guild Wars is available throught the PlayNC page. Factions is not

I also had the same idea first, but I got dissapointed when I saw that. No nice bonus freebies with my purchase

Str0b0 · Apr 08, 2006, 09:21 PM // 21:21

I still think it is a bit early to start large scale entertainment software marketing in Latin-America. Now your numbers are impressive and somewhat valid but I think you are shotgunning your statistics. If we apply the same formula to the United States, where more than 25% of households could purchase the game without affecting family income, and then break that down even further according to your formula then sales should have been much much higher than they were. We can see from actual sales reports that this is not the case. While I can concede that the market is there I debate it's potential to provide a viable market segment for consistent profits. Still I don't think we are wildly varying in our points of views. I think it's just to soon to make that sort of move but I think that they will have to eventually. You on the other hand think the market is ripe for it now. Anyway I think though that in the end we will have to agree to disagree if only slightly. It's nice to have an informed debate though. It's wonderful exercise for the mind.

Captain Nemo · Apr 08, 2006, 09:33 PM // 21:33

I agree to disagree, even if only a little, Strobo. You are right too in your numbers, and I will only point out that I said that 100,000 would be "interested", as in potential customers. You never get all of them, but certainly its a number not to be underapreciated.

Publicity standards are that for every 100 people you get to, only 10 will actually buy or consider buying (and this time am really guessing my numbers as I cant really remember the real ones), but still, the companies spent billions each year in it.

Whether or not the market is ripe, its a question I dont think neither you or me will be able to answer. Only companies with enough resources for a thorough market research will be able to do that. Time will tell, and yes, in the meanwhile I will have to whine about not getting my early copy for a fair price (100 dollars is just too much to spent on an international order for just a game, which it is, after all)

ender6 · May 08, 2006, 08:28 PM // 20:28

(Reference to deleted post removed by Lasher Dragon)

@Captin Nemo, I think you are correct in everything you stated, and I'm sure Anet will take it into account. I work at a company that has several international offices. The lengthy process which is undergone to get something translated is far more difficult than you might imagine. A local resource (translator native to that region) must submit an initial translation, which you then back translate (using a translator on your end). Then you submit the translation to your quality control department to identify problem areas in the translation. Then this process is continued in a recursive fashion, slowly winding its way down until a final viable translation is reached. This can take weeks, and can become costly.

So, I think Anet will like any company weigh the costs vrs the benefits. Hopefully it works out for you. You could also raise a public stink which would eventually force Anet to disregard the costs and simply commit to making the translations accurate for the sake of PR.

Lasher Dragon · May 08, 2006, 08:50 PM // 20:50

I deleted a bunch of posts in here and edited another - if you cannot discuss this topic in a civilized way, then do not post in here.